Review broken again?

Thanks Daniel, things are working better today. I am still getting odd numbers of words to review, such as 16 at a time instead of 25. Also, this is going back to a previous post, but since you all are making these big changes, could you please create a “skip” button so that an individual word or phrase can be postponed until the next review session? My typing is dyslexic and sometimes after getting a word wrong a couple of times I just want to move on rather than having to see it again and again and be forced to type it. Plus it’s better for learning (in my opinion) to get the word wrong, move on, and then come back to it later. I believe it has actually been discussed in this very forum somewhere, how getting something wrong can help cement it more strongly in memory, but I don’t think it works if you’re sitting there cursing at the keyboard :slight_smile:

Thanks for the feedback @l0rri
In fact, a recent change reduced significantly the number of tests one need to answer after a sign failure, though it does require one to answer a multiple-choice instead. Does that not address your issue ? I’m asking because a multiple-choice test does not require you to type, and is considered significantly easier, specifically after seeing a presentation. Or are you referring to the “copy-typing” test (where you see what you the answer while typing) ?

There’s a navegation error that’s been around for a few weeks:

List courses in Group mode (have to do this because of whoops error).
Review items for a course
Return to Course ‘levels’.
Use ‘back button’ on Firefox to return to course list by Group (it was quicker than hitting Group button).
All items for reviewed course presented for review rather than returning to course listing (At first I thought these were new items for review occuring while I was busy but not so).

@daniel.zohar, @BeaTrisy

Can one of you comment on whether this is going to stay or not? You’ve ignored a couple of posts referring to the issue.

“Hey guys, I’m trying to learn Japanese in this course: https://www.memrise.com/course/24172/jlpt-n3-vocab-with-audio/. But recently something is different with the ‘reviewing’ function.
As you can see in this picture, the website tells me to type the ‘Kana’ type of the word but I actually write it in its Kanji form (still corrrect). If this was a few days ago, the website would just tell me ‘You wrote the Kanji but we want the Kana form’ (or something like that, I don’t remember clearly) and then it allowed me to retype again. But now it just gives me wrong answer.
I know this is my fault but can you please change it to the way it was before? :frowning:

“Issues #5&6 in my last post (all question mark icons in session being the same color and preview showing items in a random order) are still present though, as well as answers from other columns resulting in an incorrect answer, instead of asking me to ‘try again’. This compounds with the question mark icon issue to make review sessions very frustrating. Pressing escape after correctly answering a question is still counting the item as incorrect as well.”

“Also, I still have the issue wherein if I type hiragana or katakana when the answer wants “common Japanese” (that is, kanji), I’m marked wrong now, wherein before it’d prompt you to retype in common Japanese. This is a VERY bad change (if it is, indeed, one and not a bug).”

We’re looking into it

@daniel.zohar, thanks.

I am currently doing the memrise course ‘Russian 5’. Today when I was reviewing words, memrise was faulting a lot of my correct answers. It happened with all the sentences, less with the single words. I checked and rechecked but the correct answer that was shown was identical to the answer I gave every single time (also I knew these sentences and words from the top of my head so I immediately knew there was something wrong). Because of this I am unable to finish the sessions because the system keeps faulting my correct answers. This is the first time it has happened, does anyone have the same problem?

No, this is different. I’m using a script so that I can type instead of multiple choice. (I hate multiple choice for language learning.) But with or without the script, the correct answer must be selected or typed before moving on to the next session. So let’s say I type “Francai” instead of the correct answer, “Francia.” Then I have to type “Francia” to correct the error. But let’s say my fingers are clumsy and I type it again as “Francai,” and then again, because my brain is not connecting with the fingers. At that point, I would like to dismiss the word and come back later. That is how it used to work - if you got the word wrong about 3 times it would stop showing up and just come back again in another session. Now it feels like a gun to the head, “Type this word or you will never be allowed to exit this page.”

We don’t really support those scripts. I’d say that in this instance it breaks the learning experience. Over time, as we’ll be continuously improving our learning algorithm the gap, I believe, will only increase.

We’re working now on adapting the difficulty level of test to the each individual user based on their past performance, so the better you are, the more difficult tests will get. I think that could lead to users like yourself not require such scripts.

Regardless, we’ll consider this use case and see how to best incorporate it into the algorithm.

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removed. removed.

Daniel, this was a recent change and it happens regardless of script or no script (without the script it happens only with multiple choice, but still the same thing happens - I disabled the script just now, and tested it to make sure). I’m also not talking about difficulty levels - it’s more about typos, or temporary typing dyslexia, finger fatigue, etc., in other words, having the intention to press one key (whether multiple choice OR typing) but the fingers fumbling and hitting another, and then having to try over and over again to the point of frustration and fatigue. This was a deliberately made change just in the last few weeks. Seriously, please re-read the example I gave. At some point of frustration, after typing it 3 or 4 times incorrectly (or hitting the wrong multiple choice selection several times) I WANT to give up on that word for the time being and come back later when the hand/eye coordination is cooperating. There is no option to do so. Just a simple option to “skip until next time” would be great! I know you are dealing more with the problems surrounding the current update at this point, but it’s a suggestion for the near future if you guys at Memrise would please consider it. :slight_smile:

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@daniel.zohar, this is what he’s talking about.

Say I get the word “dog” wrong. Before, what would happen is if you continued to get it wrong, the review session would end. Now, you have to type “dog” correctly ONCE for the session to end. That means if you’re stuck on a twenty-word sentence, the session will never end unless you type the sentence perfectly. This was a change from 25 days ago when we started this thread.

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All I can really do to help is make lists, so here’s an updated one. It’s mostly copy/pasted from my earlier posts, but I have confirmed that all of these issues are still present: (I’ll be crossing out entries as they appear to be fixed.)

1: Pressing escape or clicking ‘See answer’ after correctly answering a question in review treats the item as if it was answered incorrectly for the remainder of the review session. This was not the case before, and it makes it extremely inconvenient to access the extra information in that page.

2: The color-coded question mark icons shown for tests all seem to be the same purple color. I have been relying on these quite a bit to easily distinguish between the different testing directions in my courses, and have been making sure that they all match up for each of the courses that I create, so this is pretty disorienting.

3: When answering with the text in a column other than the intended answer, you are counted as wrong, rather than being prompted to ‘try again’. This compounds with issue #2 to make review sessions very frustrating for me, as I use three different testing directions in my courses.

4: Items are being introduced in learning sessions much more quickly than before. Previously, it would introduce them very gradually; introduce the first two, testing me a couple times on those, introduce the third, test me on that, along with the first two, before moving onto the fourth, etc. Now it’s almost pouring them all out at once. There are still tests between (most of) them, but nowhere near as many as before, and I’m even seeing many introduced back to back throughout the session. This makes it very difficult to keep up with the learning session for me, as I’m being given more items to juggle before I’ve properly grasped the previous ones, and I can safely say that it’s been having a negative impact on my recall for the items later on.

5: Points from speed and accuracy bonuses aren’t being applied to daily goals.

6: When using ‘preview’ in a level, the items seem to show in a random order, rather than from start to finish.

I removed the point on the change in how incorrect answers are addressed in review sessions, since @daniel.zohar stated that it’s an intended change. I’m honestly really unhappy with that change, but I guess that’s a discussion for another day. If anything else in this list is an intended change, it would help to know. Prior to @daniel.zohar’s recent post, there were many users pointing out the change to reviewing incorrect answers, thinking it was a glitch, but we were basically left in the dark on it being intentional.

I’ve probably missed some issues, so if anyone has anything that I should add, I can edit this post or make another if it gets buried.

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Hi @daniel.zohar, are you saying that the algorithm has been changed so that there are less tests for a particular word after answering incorrectly? Are you working to change the algorithm to be more like the app? Staying with memrise for me revolves heavily around the website algorithm not being the same as the app so I’d really appreciate knowing this ahead of time vs. a month down the road when a large block of words seem to not have “stuck”.
Also, if it means anything, I’d heavily suggest asking power and heavy users to test new algorithms before implementing changes. Definitely the kind of thing that could be discussed as a lot of people rely on memrise.

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Might I be petty and ask why all of these changes when I saw no complaints?

@TinyCaterpillar, looks like the courses now show on the bar when you’re doing sessions. Also, I’m taken back to the level rather than the course main page, so at least that’s been handled.

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Good to know. Thanks!

I thing this is a terrible downgrade of Memrise’s functionality. For several years, whenever I forgot a word, Memrise had me hold the word in my memory for a minute or so and then re-type it. This was very effective. Now, not so much. I thought this was a temporary bug. Now that I hear it is intentional, I wonder what the company is thinking? How does this change support learning?

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This bothers me also. He’s mentioned an algorithm that gets more difficult the better you do and also mentioned what you quoted. I tried the app for a while when it first came out and noticed a big drop in my retention so I’ve always stuck with the website because I felt it kept the “classic” algorithm. I understand them wanting to improve it, but suddenly changing the algorithm is a pretty big deal that would be cool if it was discussed and/or worked through with the community.

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I’m learning French and have completed several courses. I use a PC and an android phone for Memrise.

On the PC during reviewing, if I enter the correct answer it repeatedly marks the answer as incorrect, even if I subsequently copy and paste their answer into the dialogue box.

As far as I can make out, when typing the answer into the difficult words dialogue box, the answer highlights as wrong one character after I have typed an apostrophe.

The problem only occurs on the courses written by Memrise. Also, occasionally I’m getting the Spanish character set or no character set at all which makes typing in French dificult.

I was not even using “escape” for that; i was pressing “see answer”, after the “next” was getting green. Very annoying, as annoying that now one sees only once the mistaken word.