Punctuation triggers premature completion of answer

Hi there,
Often, when an answer contains a comma, I don’t get chance to complete it because Memrise asumes I’m finished and jumps to the next question. As I’m currently studying the Memrise Spanish 1-7 which contains lots of sentences with punctuation, this is really frustrating. If my answer is wrong, I don’t get a chance to retype the whole answer, even if I’ve had chance to view my error.

It’s not consistant; maybe it happens when the Q/A is at the end of a set, though the set is not the current review block. I will add more detail if I can work out what’s happening.

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It happens with the Swedish by Memrise courses just as well.

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I think it happens every time there is a comma. I don’t like it either.

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Actually it doesn’t, that is the funny part.

On my own course there are items for verb conjugation, the prompt is the infinitive, and the answer is “present form, part form, perfect form” with commas. And they work just the way they are.

Actually, scratch that: they go “(conjugation type number) present, past, perfect”, and the short answers are only added as alternatives. I might try what happens if I don’t add the number in the beginning.

Thank goodness, I’m not the only one. I keep thinking it’s something I’m doing but if so, it would happen with answers without commas. I usually manage to get the correct answer typed in after 3 attempts.

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Further thoughts: the validation is inconsistant across the various boxes in which one can type.

1st attempt (question is presented, the answer box is at the top of the page): not sure yet if there is a problem with this one. But for now assume a typing error is made.

2nd attempt (reply is represented for correction, answer box is at the bottom of the page): validation rules aren’t correct and jumping at the first comma occurs.

3rd attempt (question is represented, answer box is at the top of the page. Answer can be answered correctly.

Anyone agree?

This isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.

In memrise answers, commas indicate alternative answers. For example, if the answer in a course is given as “little, small” then you’re allowed to type either “little” or “small” as answers. You could also type “little, small” as an answer. In other words, you’re either allowed to give the entire string exactly, or you can give any of the comma-separated alternatives.

Obviously this doesn’t work quite so well for courses that have whole sentences or phrases with commas in them. But it works well enough. For example, if the correct answer is the phrase “those who hesitate, miss out”, you could just enter “those who hesitate” or “miss out” and have it marked correct - but if you’re actually trying to learn, you’re not going to do that. Seeing the prompt, if you know enough to know either the part before or after the comma, then you also know enough to know those aren’t really correct answers, so unless you’re trying to cheat your own learning by tricking memrise, you won’t just enter one part. You’ll try to give the whole answer, and if you don’t get the whole thing right, memrise will mark it wrong. So despite this quirk of memrise, no damage done.

However, there is one place where this quirk shows itself more forcefully, and that’s what you’ve encountered: Right after you get something incorrect during a review, memrise shows you the learning screen for it and prompts you to enter it again. This is not a quiz! Memrise shows you the correct answer, right there on the screen, and just has you type it in. This is re-learning practice.

Unlike normal learning, and unlike review quizzes, where you have to hit enter to submit your answer and get it checked, when you’re on this re-learning practice screen, you do not have to hit enter. As soon as you’ve typed a correct answer it is auto-submitted, instantly.

Of course, when the correct answer is a list of alternatives, you only have to type one of them, not the whole list. So as soon as you type one of them, it gets instantly auto-submitted. That’s okay for situations like “little, small”, where you type either “little” or “small” and it instantly turns green without waiting for you to hit enter. But with a phrase, it’s a bit jarring - it stops you after the first comma, because it thinks you have entered one of the alternative answers completely.

Overall, I think the comma-alternative syntax is extremely useful for course creators. I wish memrise would let course creators say, with a simple checkbox, whether a particular data column should or should not interpret commas as alternative answers; that way, a data column containing phrases could have that feature disabled. But for now, as long as memrise doesn’t have that feature, we’ll just have to live with that quirk on the re-learning screen after a wrong answer. Aside from that one place, where the harm is very limited, this feature does a lot more good than bad, and as long as you don’t deliberately take advantage of it to let yourself get things right when you know you don’t actually know them, it shouldn’t affect you noticeably.

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Just to clarify, the actual validation of answers is the same on a give course. The only thing that makes the re-learning screen different is that it doesn’t wait for you to hit enter as soon as it sees what it thinks is a correct answer.

This turns out to be flawed for more than just commas, it’s also flawed for answers with regular “alts” that are substrings. For example, let’s say there was a prompt for which the course creator allowed several answers: “okay”, “ok”, and “o.k.”. If you learned “okay” as the answer, and normally type that, it would usually work - but if you got it wrong, on the re-learning screen as soon as you typed “ok” it would auto-submit, never letting you type out “okay”.

That’s just a contrived example, and a harmless one, but there are a variety of situations where there may be multiple answers and one is a substring of the other. If a Finnish course is trying to teach you the word “johtokunta” (management) but also allows “johto” as an alt (without showing it on the learning screen), you’d be cut off halfway through “johtokunta” on the re-learning screen.

Given that so many courses contain sentences, I think it would have been better to select a different symbol to denote alternatives e.g. the % or *. If this method is to be continued, I think the implications need to be stressed to course creators. The problems are showing up in Memrise’s own courses!

Well, people have been using commas for alternatives in memrise for many years. Lots and lots and lots of courses have vocabulary with comma-delimited lists of alternates. It works well because that list shows up on the learning screen sensibly. Instead of teaching someone that a word means “little % small”, it shows them the word means “little, small” - which makes sense right away. People understand that without extra explanation.

Not just language courses use commas this way. For example, in my tropical fish course, I have things like “Emperor Angelfish, juvenile”, intending to allow people to just type “emperor angelfish” if they see that picture again, but also to allow them to type “emperor angelfish, juvenile” if they want to. It’s nice and flexible and sensible.

So, lots and lots of memrise courses use this feature. It’s all over the site in loads and loads of databases. I think changing it would be very harmful and disruptive.

However, like I said, memrise could mitigate the very minor problem this causes by allowing course maintainers to mark specific database columns as not using the comma feature. If they ever listened to suggestions from users, that’s not a new one. I know I made it years ago.

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I’ve certainly made use of this feature and really hope there isn’t a ‘fix’ that appears one day that negates a lot of work on several of my courses. For instance my Bulgarian adjectives course has ‘‘masculine, feminine’’ (neuter and plural follow simple pattern from the feminine so are easy to work out) Both forms can be seen and learned together, but when reviewing either or both can be answered - very useful for longer term reviewing, where if I know one I know both.

A good idea, deserves to be on the creators wish list :wink:

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