Learning (428)
ouch… 
Kevin, just give us a sign (wink or something) if some obnoxious and mentally retarded, but nonetheless conniving aliens had abducted Memrise staff and forcing you to make all these stupid decisions for a couple of years. We are surely will try to help you, don’t be afraid to tell the truth.
(fudging Ziggy, I knew it was him!)
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I’ve learnt thousands of words through courses I created myself in memrise. I already migrated them to Anki and will continue using Anki and AnkiWeb from now on. Still can not believe how blind the people responsible for this business decision are, whoever they are.
Goodbye
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Have in mind there are some expenses to keep an infrastructure running - a growing infrastructure.
So I understand they are reviewing the business-model.
But i think it might have been a better idea to either revise the terms of payment or just open a public discussion.
Anyway: Ads are a no go; missing App is a no go and no Offline mode is another no go. The Memrise own-courses are not sufficient for learning beyond a certain level. So every user with attitude will be in need to make use of community based courses.
Btw.: Thanks for mentioning Anki - did not hear of that before. Anyone having knowledge how to export - Import courses… (Just in case)
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Thanks Kevin, this is a positive first step.
I hope this ultimately means that our feedback will be listened to, taken on-board, and acted upon.
It would be really disappointing if all we got out of these discussions was a crisp corporate non-apology; a dismissal of our views that pretends to be an acknowledgement of them.
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As a vivid course contributor and learner, I’m disappointed. I’m sad. I’m angry. No app, no offline mode and Decks doomed to be closed without a viable income stream. Yet I understand why Memrise is doing that - even from a customer perspective. Memrise desperately needs two separate divisions:
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one division for their very own courses: Aimed at beginners, aimed at paying customers, with a decent marketing budget, with reliable maintenance, programmed with these glossy video and other multimedia features in mind (speech recognition?) aimed at users (who don’t get the original concept of Memrise and) who don’t accept orphaned course, who complain about non-responding course creators and who are confused by the fact that there’s also a cluttered community course section. This app/web site must be easy to navigate and should rightly get rid of all the unnecessary clutter such as an editing/creating section and boundless community course categories and lists. I can’t comment on how successful this “pro-version” of Memrise will be and how it possibly can compete against other apps, but I’m sure the Memrise team has the data to back their calculations up: It ain’t rocket science to calculate how many of the subscribers learn only the Memrise-made courses and how much revenue this equals and how much a smaller server for just the Memrise-built courses would cost. This division must be the cash-cow. And it must take over the successful brand and app store rating. Don’t be sentimental here! A company needs revenue and this division is up for sale, an IPO, whatever the owners want to do with it.
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one division for their community courses: this should be like Memrise always used to be. Community created courses for users who like to learn exotic languages, like to get lost in the endless course lists, like to try out courses and are not mad when they turn out to bad. Maybe Memrise could even improve this division: give us a “report error feature” for each card, better editor, better licensing/source features (the legal issue always used to be a concern), better collaboration tools, an export feature, an offline editor, a course rating feature, a better course search feature, bring community courses back to the app, Forvo audio downloads, Wiktionary lookup, TTS capability. And of course: we need an app with offline capabilities and a working mobile web site and a desktop website. In the long run, you may want to have an API or an open source code app - heck I’m sure that users would not only help to create content they would even maintain and improve slowly but steadily and voluntarily the Decks app for you. But you shouldn’t introduce new features now - first make Decks a simple Memrise clone. Btw: it’s not a terribly bad move to brand it like “Decks by Memrise”. I don’t care about the branding but this way you can easily do cross-marketing for both divisions. And all of this must have a sound financial revenue stream. Let’s face it: without a sound financial backing Decks is dead. I even would accept some ads (Duolingo does a good job here for once!). Or ask for donations - there’s more than one user who regards the subscription fee as such. And I’m pretty sure that the “Deck divison” could easily charge a subscription fee for pro-features (like it’s now: offline capabilities, special review modes etc.). Why don’t you try following price model: all premium subscribers will have access to both the new Memrise and Decks for the time they have bought the subscription. This would mitigate the shit storm here. All new subscribers have to chose whether they want to buy the new Memrise app pro-features or “Decks Pro”. Do cross-marketing in both apps and collect from Deck and Memrise users a 10% surcharge if they want to use both divisons’ premium features. It’s beyond me why you don’t do this from a business perspective. You could even make more money. If you have financial problems and need to cut operating costs, the only feasible solution would be to kill free community courses right now, but you stated that you won’t do that. So what’s your reasoning? Either something strange is going on, or operating costs for community courses are sustainable. If your business makes profit now, why don’t you continue to make profit with Decks? And for good sake, modify your implementation plan.Here’s what you do: Copy Memrise content to the Deck servers. Then remove Memrise-made courses in the Deck’s databases. Leave the content of Memrise as it is for 6 months - then remove the community courses. Copy the Memrise website and rebrand it, copy the existing app, rebrand it, point it to the new Deck servers, bring back community course lists to the app. That’s really easy from a software engineering point of view. You basically fork the project and make some cosmetic changes. Then let users try both web sites and apps for one year and listen to the feedback. Make sure that the new deck app works flawlessly and everyone can continue learn community courses as they were used to. This way you won’t lose any customers. Keep on actively developing the Memrise software - you seem to have big plans. But don’t stop maintaining the Decks app and web site. I understand that you don’t have the staff to add new features to the Deck app. I think everyone is OK with it as it is (the app works as it is now). If Decks is a success you’ll may continue active development or even make this then orphaned app open source after a cool-down period of two years or so (this way open source doesn’t destroy the value of your shiny modern Memrise app).
And here’s my prediction (will return my MBA if I’m wrong): Do as I told you and Decks will strive and Memrise will (maybe) do OK but will eventually struggle. The reason: it has already been proven that community based courses are a viable USP.
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You have to install the desktop version (available here: https://apps.ankiweb.net/). There is an addon memrise2anki, which has also to be installed. It is rather simple to import courses, just takes some time.
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So basically you’re preparing a letter of why we should accept that you are changing it anyway. One big pity fest of why we shouldn’t be the displeased customers we are right now but instead embrace the doom which lies on the horizon for us users.
A statement will not resolve the issues of these sudden drastic changes and obviously because they are sudden there were no plans of resolving them in the first place because it would be impossible to do so within less than a month.
You have a hard job Kevin, my respects but a few kind words cannot calm the storm that the company you work for decided to sweep up.
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Excellent summary.
Mirroring my thoughts and adding some nice seasoning to it.
@kevin5284 → how would look that for You?
I add one more spice of mine own:
- for the user created content division hire someone with great experience in dealing with user created content to interact with content creators on one side and developers on the other side in classy way.
- Let’s say some former manager of Wikimedia (overlooking Wikipedia) or from Wikia (it was founded by Wikipedia founder Jimbo Walles with the difference that the fandom-Wiki on Wikia is successfully monetized!)
- They have to have the passion and understanding for content creators on one side and understanding for newbies on the other and to be able to facilitate all those needs in cohesive one whole. Such folks Do (!) Exist (!)
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Shout louder guys
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To follow up I recommend to think about “usecases” for different “divisions” on this thread:
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Sir, I hope your firm will now finally learn that your best customers want something ABSURDLY simple: A spaced repetition flashcard app, for community courses. Something a few guys can do as a part time job, via Amazon Web Services.
Stylistic changes, Ziggy, flowers vs. aliens, badges… None of that matters at all. (Though a functional course search might be nice…)
We are willing to pay decent money for this. It won’t be enough to put everyone’s grandkids through college, but it will be enough to pay the bills, and provide a decent income for a small handful of people.
And if you play your cards right, it may even provide sufficient seed capital for your dreams of conquering the Spanish 101 market.
But not if you wipe out your oldest subscribers in the process. Do that, and you will go bankrupt within a year or two.
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Let me get this clear… The Memrise app will be dead or not? Will I be able to continue use Memrise’s courses on the app (and enjoy my full PRO subscription)? Is it just the community courses that will migrate to Decks website? (if yes, now I do understand where you are going with this… maybe it’s just a matter of costs and server capacity)
Will I be able to continue use Memrise’s courses on the app (and enjoy my full PRO subscription)? Is it just the community courses that will migrate to Decks website?
Yes and yes.
maybe it’s just a matter of costs and server capacity
Think again. This can’t be the reason. If it was a matter of cutting operating costs or increasing revenue they either wouldn’t offer Decks for free (this destroys their revenue) or would kill the free community courses immediately (instead of maintaining then two websites and paying for two servers) .
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Point two is the reason so many people are confused and irritated by this - it’s nonsensical as it stands.
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They continue to further develop their own stuff: Web, App, Multimedia and possible new featues. This needs to be hosted on own platforms.
The Community platform can be hosted everywhere for a relatively small fee. Just runs. No devolopment, no adaptions to changeing APIs on mobile devices, no intense networking for Mulimedia content and so on. It is relatively easy to keep a web-only solution up and runing for tiny money…
None of the courses I use, or have ever used, are by Memrise. I’ve been on this site for six years and have found user-made courses to be the best. After a couple of years I made my own courses and those are what I mainly use now. I’m not renewing my Pro subscription. Memrise, you were great once, but no longer.
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Users courses is the best thing on the app without them I think the app deserve a 1.
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I think they will start it for free just to see how it will be accepted, and then later when it (and if) gets popular they’ll probably charge some fee on it. (or do just as Duolingo does with ads)
But I guess to drop out a mobile app it’s really a bad idea.
Everyone is moving from PC to mobile nowadays.
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This does not feel good. I get where you’re coming from with this, but if you’re going to split up community courses and the official ones, it’s the official ones that should move somewhere new. They are not only a lot newer to the service, they also seem to be a lot less used (from what I’ve seen from community members; if I’m wrong here and your statistics say otherwise, please share those statistics). Moving a majority rather than minority of the user base feels extremely weird, especially so moving us to a less fledged out service.
It feels like you’re kicking the “native population” (so to speak) out. I’ve been switching back and forth between Anki and Memrise for the past, what, 6-7 years I think? As time’s passed I’ve started using Memrise more due to its user friendliness, but if you go through with this I’ll honestly probably just bite the bullet and move over to Anki more permanently, or write my own SRS tool.
This is especially sour as I just recently decided to get a pro-subscription, not so much for the features (except for the ad removal), but largely due to wanting to support you and your service after having used it for so long. This feels like a slap across the face, and it’s making me start to regret putting the money down for the premium.
If the support for Decks ends up including a proper API so we can write our own app(s) with offline support and what not, I might be okay (but definitely not happy) with this. I mainly use Memrise on my phone, and I’m not going to be using a web interface rather than an app. That is simply not on the table for me. It is way too inconvenient for mobile use.
Disappointed. I’m waiting with bated breath for a proper explanation for this; I really hope I’m missing something here that makes this seem a lot worse than it is.
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