[Course Forum] 5000 most frequent Italian Words ♫ Audio

Willing? Yeah absolutely. But I’m afraid I don’t have time right know. :disappointed_relieved: I need to manage my (and your) expectations here :smile:

What I could do: You may sent me a table with the final Italian entries and I’ll provide you with the kind of OK-ish audio files that one of my scripts produces in batch from Google’s TTS engine (But you have to upload it all by yourself). That works OK. And it’s much faster than stitching together audio files from Forvo.

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Appunto, appunto :smile:

Thanks for the offer. I have had to jump the gun here and make the course (verbi irregolari) since I am sitting a CELI exam next month and need the resource.

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Nice work! (For audio just ask … I mean, it’s not that many entries. It’s maybe doable by using soundoftext.com manually…)

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@Robert-Alexander:
I just wanted to thank you for the wonderful course that you have created. I’m an advanced learner of Italian, but I have found that the fact that you have sequenced these levels with words in alphabetical order is a remarkable mnemonic device for learning these words. It was surprising at first to learn how easy it is to memorize words when you realize that every word begins with “a,” then “b,” and so forth. In addition, even though I’ve made it through only the first level of words (beginning with “a”) the words in the corpus are also arranged in alphabetical order, another great memory device for learning. For those of you who have not tried this course, please do so. It’s quite wonderful. Thanks again, BLBrunetti

@BLBrunetti

There is already a thread precisely for this course down there (look for the introductory [Course Forum] in its title) . Therefore I strongly suggest putting your comment there if you expect any feedback.

Thx. That’s very kind of you. I actually dislike the alphabetical order but didn’t have a list strictly based on frequency. Many users learn five words beginning with one letter and then the five words in the next “letter group” and so forth. For further comments, hints, suggestions, plz check the original forum:

Hopefully this is the right place, as there’s been no comment since 2018!!

Anyways, the word “ma” or “but” has incorrect choices, and gives TWO of the same things. So I got it wrong twice because I unfortunately clicked the one that was programmed as “wrong” but actually, two choices said the exact same thing.

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Not sure if I understand what you’re saying. Could you maybe elaborate? :pleading_face:

There are more than two words that could mean but in Italian. E.g. però, bensì, salvo. Hence the hint [not però, bensì, salvo] after the English translation of ma. Additionally, I added tranne to the pack. But there are more words, that also could mean - in particular cases only - but: like soltanto, comunque, tuttavia, invece, intanto. I decided to add those not to the answer hints. The entries are already convoluted and soltanto, comunque, tuttavia, invece, intanto have sufficient main meanings and thus sufficiently unique definitions that make them easy to distinguish from ma, però, bensì, salvo, tranne.

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Hi. I meant that two of the four choices were EXACTLY the same, so then you can’t know which one is programmed as “correct”, since they are both correct, but the program I guess only allows one.

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I hope I clicked the correct Reply button!
Found another issue. “L’obbligazione” and “L’obbligo” have too many commonalities in the answer. Of the 300ish words I’ve done so far, these have been the most frustrating. Because the clues were basically the same I couldn’t really tell what was what until the very end when they showed the summary page.

It’s hard to learn new words if the clues are the same and I’m typing out the OTHER word as the answer. Just back and forth. Perhaps one more clue word to help further distinction between the two?

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I don’t get it. What type of question was that? Were you prompted with audio or text? Were you asked to type your answer? Were you asked to click on your answer? Were answer choices in English or Italian? I’m honestly trying to understand you so that I can mitigate this issue. At the moment, if that was really presented as an unsolvable quiz, I surmise that this a technical problem (unfortunately, Memrise sometimes keeps ghost entries :ghost: from previous iterations) - but before I make this bold statement, I wanna wait for your answer.

That being said, I took a second look at that issue. Despite the fact, that I still can’t see how the entry (answer hints taken into account) is ambiguous, I tweaked the entries for both però and ma:

  • però :arrow_forward: but, yet; nevertheless, though, however [not ma, bensì, salvo, tranne]
  • ma :arrow_forward: but; however, yet [not però, bensì, salvo, tranne]

However, both words mean essentially the same. No point in denying this…

Thx a lot. I need those hints. I’m just a dilettante. I’m really grateful for this. I agree, differentiating between such similar words is a pain in the — And Memrise has done little (as far as technical or didactic solutions go) to help solving this problem (that is btw inherent to all such big 5k courses). Other courses (like the 8k Swedish course) split their courses and add longer English definitions in order to better differentiate between similar entries - but I find this solution too complex - hence the [not xxxx] answer hints. There’s an option to enter alternative answers that are accepted as correct answer for each entry. However, I boycott this feature since editing and maintaining these alternative answers is so poorly executed.

Please expect some more rough edges in the 5k course - I do my utmost to improve the course over time. Plz keep reporting. Really short hints are sufficient - most of the time I’ll get what you mean (notwithstanding the issue around but remains).

Back to your OP: this is clearly a mistake on my part. Since both words mean very much the same, the answer hints should help you instead of making it worse. They clearly contributed to your negative experience. That’s really the worst case of doing it wrong. I’ve changed the entry for l’obbligazione. Now it reads:

  • l’obbligazione :arrow_forward: the obligation, duty, condition; in finance: bond, debenture [not l’obbligo]
  • l’obbligo :arrow_forward: the obligation, duty [not l’obbligazione]

Still both words do resemble each other - but I guess that’s how Italian is.

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Hey, sorry I don’t know how to quote back.
But this reply is re: “ma”

haha, sorry, I realize how non-concise I was after seeing your reply!
It was asking me the definition of “ma” and/or “but” and asking me for the translation. Sorry, I can’t remember if it was English -> Italian, or vice versa. Two of those choices said exactly the same list of words. So I thought it didn’t matter which one I chose, regardless if it was computer error or not, but that assumption was incorrect. I got them wrong a few times and basically I completed the lesson only because I guessed the computer “correct” of the two same word lists.

I don’t recall having issues with pero, it would have been just “ma” for sure, but thank you anyhow.

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WOW, THANK YOU. Your devotion and expediency to these replies are very much appreciated!!

Yes, I AGREE with you, pls DO boycott the alternative answers feature. I would not come here to learn 5000 words then to only actually learn 3000!! So, thanks for that!

I’m very happy you welcome the reporting, I was a little hesitant, me being the only one writing here, haha, and the last comments were several years prior! In any case, 5K words is SWEETTT, it was far more than I had ever expected to find. Many other resources are great, but very scattered subject matter, and this is great for sheer volume.

Thanks for the l’obblig… fixes!

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Hi Robert, separate comment, separate issue.

I was wondering if it’s possible to change one of the voices. One of the main guys (or recordings) is really soft spoken, and very hard to hear. He has a very boring voice too, a little blase or emo, so altogether it’s like he’s Eeyore in a library.

I realize how laborious it probably is, but it’s something I guess that could be slowly picked at when you have extra time. Thanks!

Then I can only guesstimate that this a technical issue I can perhaps do nothing against. I removed one of the aforementioned :ghost: ghost entries. Hope that’s enough. Otherwise: bad luck. Tip: If you come across this issue again, take a quick snapshot, upload it to somewhere (google photos is my prefered choice) and post the link to the pic here - then I know exactly what’s going on…

Thanks. I guess the clue is in your username :cool:

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Technically, this is possible. First problem: Tempus fugit. Second problem: most of the audio comes from Forvo.com. I’m not Italian - quite the opposite :de: (thus you don’t want to hear my pronunciation - it’s horribly teutonic). Plus, my only source for natural sound files to download from is forvo.com. But most Italian words only have one file available. If that’s “your guy”, then that leaves me with nothing that I could use to do about. However, if I find really misleading pronunciation, I’m glad to replace them. In case there’s no other sound file available, I fall back to soundoftext.com which produces, well, ok-ish TTS files for Italian.

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Aahh, ok! I had completely assumed you were Italian, because 5000 words is a LOT!

I totally had a different idea in my head. I thought that you had people record their voices, haha, but I guess if you are using already available audio clips, then yes, that would be extremely hard to change.

It was a thought. Thanks for the reply.

Was wondering if you take word definition suggestions, thought I’d offer a few up here. Also some questions for myself!

Question about questo and quello. My understanding is that these are singular (e.g. this, and that, respectively), but you have included a plural definition (e.g. these, and those). Are these plural definitions occasional exceptions to the rule? Is there a reason one would not use questi and quelli instead?

Question about definitions. Are you trying to cater to ESL learners as well? I was wondering because I feel some different English words may be a better, more direct association with the translation, unless of course I have misunderstood the translation itself.

Some examples:
Accertare. Would “ascertain” be a better fit? The other definitions could be eliminated since they are synonyms, and the bracketed hint pack could be eliminated since the English and Italian words are in such close proximity (that is, if I have understood the intended Italian meaning to begin with!) But if you are trying to cater to ESL learners, then indeed, ascertain, may be a difficult word for them.

Effettivamente - How’s “effectively” sound? You can eliminate basically everything else using this word, for similar reasons.

Question about maceria. Could the definition be adjusted to “stone wall”, to distinguish itself from the other “walls” (e.g. parete, muro, etc.), and also added definitions of debris, rubble, ruins, etc.? I just came across it when trying to figure out if I could associate maceria to something to help me remember. When I was first saw “short wall” I thought it meant “stub wall” so after some Googling, this is where I’ve ended up at!

Thanks again for all the hard work!

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